BREAKING: US Banking System | Britcoiners by CoinCorner #80

Transcript

foreign [Music] has anyone else got a strong opinion about that real example very much against it on a Monday as well no this is this last two weeks we went two weeks without you rambling on about something stupid before it's all right yeah but people have a good think about it because um bitcoin price which is slightly different to what I'm looking at but that's interesting I mean that would have to be hard to get down on a bit of paper to get it accurate was it now what's that on the paper we'll come back to it oh agenda uh imagine the month we'll go to this week we've got Kraken uh uh silvergate Capital Silicon Valley Bank uh HSBC acquiring Silicon Valley Bank in the UK or the UK album at least circle with a usdc stable coin and disaster after banking issues in the US um the prey I don't say that the prayer Bitcoin experiment the 71 transaction lightning transactions in three minutes coinbase uh stopping usdc uh Corey from Swan talking about uh Bitcoin penetration of how many people own Bitcoin and also uh throwing in the Saudi aramoko I can never say that either uh made 161 billion in profits into 2020 2022 which is the biggest ever for a public company right go on talk about you call me now no people can skip this after so yeah Molly was basically that's great but Molly Molly was eating a performer the world is on fire but of course for breakfast because on Mondays I work adjusted hours because I got school runs so technically my lunch time is earlier because I eat breakfast early all right so you've had an early breakfast I had an early breakfast lunch yep technically gosh you're being bet by like seven yeah okay all right maybe it's just why I don't do this the smell of this time smelly is offensive um if you're not bothered about other people that's fine I didn't smell it you didn't smell the corn no Dave we've been waiting here for 20 minutes so I was just like well I'm gonna eat because as long as you'll hear my stomach crumbling sorry all right all right let's get cracking price did you win the argument yeah you did you just apologized so I did win oh that's just a move on I find it works with a lot of people it's a really empty sorry yeah sorry what's the agenda twenty two one five nine I've got yeah I've got 21 935 I've not seen it goes to 21 this morning uh 10 24 it was 21 958 where did you get that from this is all clean desk oh I never trust coins why are we using coin desks you could you would have download but all we do 1000 but uh so um yeah coin market cap obviously is um a good one because it's an aggregated price of everything it proves the boy priv obviously is always the old classic uh but only Aggregates like three three yeah um but actually I don't trust it once it was it was been way wrong before yeah but my interesting point was thinking that is why that's lower than I've seen today I'd know it's because I know Gemini had a premium of like a thousand dollars and still have as far as more I was curious where Mikey got that from it's like two it's like a thousand dollars more on Gemini at the moment uh I think they are yeah it's been so much noise over the weekend yeah there's been so much noise over the weekend but I think it's because of um and I think coinbase has got a little bit of a premium now as well it's because of the US had a 300 premium yeah oh really this U.S banking's just created a the is it the kimchi premium back in the day was the Japanese one was it I've read about that recently yeah yeah which um sorry I thought kimchi was a fermented yeah yeah yeah no no no no they called it that was the terminology they used okay like the Bitcoin premium at the uh Gemini had a grand premium yeah um and I think I assume it's because of they're heavily tied with uh was it with the usdc stuff as well but as our coinbase I'm not sure I don't know enough well they're still trying to claw back stuff from that are they not trying to call back from the greatest thing yeah yeah they've still got chaos from all that from the urn products and things yeah they're so far they're 2023 has been pretty terrible yeah yeah I would say so no it can only get better for the Gemini um so yeah I was curious with the price but yeah the price is what it is I think you know these times at the minute we'll come onto the bank and stuff in a minute but Bitcoin is made for this I don't think it's a great thing to be going around everyone being like Bitcoin was made for this like it's real kicking people while they're down I don't know it's highlighting it's there's electric balls or is it just a similar situation really yeah I was going to buy the newspaper like this weekend the times I didn't because I didn't see it but um because I thought that like this weekend was pretty Monumental in terms of what Bitcoin could be and highlighting it to people yeah that's right I'm not arguing that it's not I'm just saying it's probably Bitcoin should pick and choose their moment because yeah I wouldn't go around kicking people down but the point of what my comment is that it is made for this this is what it came out of the 2008 crisis was where Bitcoin kind of came from in some respects um and this is what's mobile basically yeah I've Just Seen A lot of people on Twitter over the weekend engagement tweets oh yeah yeah well yeah but it's just like yeah oh you know it's confirmation of what we've always fought from one of those early days it's like the banking cycle I always these things will always keep happening so you're just like I'm just like keep it nice I know we're right but people saying these companies like a lot of other companies deserve to fail and stuff like this no there's always a human side oh you've got people have to remember that there's people's livelihoods that are on the line here so yeah uh the price anyway is it's held up incredibly well basically it's bounced back doesn't it yeah um so we're down at like went back down to like 194 I think was it at the on Saturday I think um after the Silicon Valley Bank stuff but then over the weekend it slowly cracked back up crack back up crack back open back up I did get a sneaky little buy below 20. you're pretty pleased when you see that but yeah that's good good one good catch I know um but yeah uh let's not really much there's more to say on the price really just gotta wait and see how these next couple of weeks play out with the blanking world in the US would you point out we're recording this on the Monday aren't we Monday morning so anything good change by the time this comes out yeah I think that's the same with every single pod we've ever recorded and I think it changes it often does because we're breaking news yeah oh yeah we don't we can't try and be breaking news of this pod right now two days later um so yeah this is the Monday after the weekend of Carnage uh from the U.S banking side so pre uh before we get into the banking side just the first one because it was quite coincidental timing uh kraken's uh Chief legal officer was that last week was it started last week or the end of the week before was it something like that the um he did a tweet didn't even mentioned about how Kraken are looking to launch their own bank and they've got plans to launch their own bank in the US and then during the week everything happened um silvergate so I thought Kraken were already doing that I thought is that a UK but no no it's the US One they've been planning to do it for a while yeah was it not years ago that we saw a huge big file like someone was tweeting about was that someone else was that coinbase were they trying to do another bank I don't think so no recommendation yeah is it was it is it still could have been working on it for a few years I think now right they probably decided to re-announce because they thought something was bubbling I think yeah I think because they know in the background this must have been well we'd already seen silvergate issues on everyone's Radars um I think the comment was just it wasn't like an announcement was it it's just like it was a comment from what I saw yeah on somebody else's tweet was it or something okay um but yeah there's obviously appetite there from the to their announcement is that they're bringing it wasn't an announcement I've just said that that's that's not the words let's not always in there say something for the first time well it's not the first time no it's not the first time they've been talking about the bank for a while but he just isn't our style of announcements isn't it his was like reaffirming reminding I guess at the minute that I bet you love that style of announcement you two what really non-announcements just the mentions and if the announcement is good enough people are wrong with it okay fine so Kraken watch this space still watch this space because it's been happening for years yeah keep watching the space but considering what we're about to come on to it's definitely interesting yeah it might be a way forward for every major exchange that kind of has to do this right yeah yeah you got your banking anywhere else yourself yeah yeah so us silvergate last week I went into voluntary liquidation um was that last Thursday Wednesday I lost track last week it's been a blur right yeah um that I guess we'll just touch on these high level and then you can get into the design I know you've read a lot about it when you Dave oh you said you told us I've read it okay yeah Silicon Valley um so Silicon Valley Bank closed up at the weekend um the banked more than 25 of the whole of Silicon Valley San Francisco area um businesses and individuals I hadn't realized over that when I heard their name I was like it's not really on my radar as a bank I don't know as anyone else's but I was just like oh and then to realize how big they were that was quite surprising yeah 200 not billion assets um 16th biggest in the US um yeah still quite big silvergate still yeah decent size there's a lot of other people planning about this contagion effect and that's not something I've really contagion that basically it's a domino effect it's on all the banks because everyone's having basically creates a run on all of them because confidence goes yeah which is what will happen now that the smaller Banks well so long come on to that so Silicon Valley Bank oh I'm waiting for him to come on I know just come on to it then you interrupt it all the time um Silicon Valley Bank closed up um Signature Bank on Sunday closed up um once I closed up the uh government effectively came in and shut them down um due to liquidity issues um should we say at the minute detail of it all is still very sketchy in terms of what exactly and so there's just lots of speculation I think around the exact detail of these things yet um and the uh First Republic um they've one that's been on the radar to potentially go down from last week as well so they tweeted saying everything was fine yeah this morning that you could ever do by the way yeah 60. what else are you supposed to say yeah yeah um but that's 60 down this morning I think already um which I think shows that and then Credit Suisse which you mentioned about last week as well credit Swiss said 10 down but as I speak I don't know uh pre-market or not sure where they are but um they are also looking like they could be in trouble which are a much bigger Bank um than these guys what always amazes me is how fast it happens like surely people go into work at these places last Monday just went in thinking it was just gonna be like the end of the week and then weekend bam well there's a panic isn't there people once people get a slight sniff of this and realize how much savings they've got on they just log on and if they've got an alternative instantly withdrawal so what yeah what effects is the smaller Banks isn't it so people lose trust in the smaller Banks because they don't have the liquidity available to pay out when people want it and that's what happens with the bank run and then they end up going under which is exactly what happens to these guys um so that's really some interesting stuff about Silicon Valley Bank in terms of how this could have well how this came about essentially so it's been summarized as like they were they were um taking in short-term deposits and basically investing in long-term assets right so U.S treasury bonds essentially um and it's all because if you're basically if you deposit into a bank the same as here actually if you deposit into a bank that that is a liability on your on your balance sheet um because you owe that to the customer so that doesn't change but then that you use that deposit in banking terms for a fractional reserve and so you can literally use that as an asset and to put you then think about how you'd use it what investment you'd make to make a bigger return so that's fundamentally how banking works is a fractional Reserve so they're not holding all these deposits money so at any one point they couldn't give everyone their money back the big difference here on most cryptos is that we are completely one-to-one so we would I would welcome a bang run if for a coin Corner yeah you know it just it would demonstrate it will demonstrate the huge difference between the banks and what we're doing well if the what we're doing is whatever like we knew after you come and take your money literally that's what we've been saying from day one yeah do we don't practice any of this fractional Reserve which is another word for essentially a bank gambling on an investment to get return right so most of the banks go through a sensible what was deemed a central approach which is bonds but bonds are long term so bonds like that a fixed rate return so you give like four percent every year you'd lock it in for 10 20 30 years and that bond has got a value at the end of that period so it's like vested so you could like sell it back and so you get your full money back at the end of the period under return every year the problem is because interest rates have gone up so quickly Beyond anywhere near where they were forecasted that bond has got a secondary Market which you could try and sell it but to put the newer bonds have much better return rates so like if you bought on a bond two years ago for 10-year period and you're getting a four percent return that bond has an x amount of value but that value will go down in the secondary market so you can't make it as liquid because newer bonds have higher return rates because the interest rates have gone up so basically they've all invested in bonds which we've all decreased in value so much so when they come and sell them they have a paper loss of billions yeah which is and all these smaller banks with less liquidity than the bigger ones that kills them they just haven't got enough in there they're being focused to sell to yeah the secondary Market is there so that they can they don't have to hold it in for all this 10 20-year period and nobody's buying yeah but why would you buy something that's got a tiny return compared to if you've got the the newer later bonds with the power in treasury so you can sell it just a massive loss yes which is what they did so it's a huge indicator of oh God this bank's got a liquidity issue yeah because they've sold it at a loss whereas otherwise why would they just not keep hold of it to the it's vested so that's why everyone's looking at that as an indicator who's selling it losses because it means they haven't got enough in the back do you know what average percentage do they usually hold as a fractional no that this is a risk profile it ranges there's a graph going around actually that shows that um which generally uh four to twelve percent range let's say a four to fourteen percent maybe range um they hold hold of client Fund in car yeah yeah so they can pay out for a damn of their clients yeah so I assume all banks play in this game aren't they it's just which if you've got hundreds of bits of people's easy understanding if you've got 100 billion on your balance sheet let's say that people are deposited in you would have if we say four percent you would have four billion readily available for people to withdrawal if people come along and withdraw five billion then you need to pull a billion out of someone which is generally like you say then in bonds so it's not yeah although they probably they didn't obviously didn't have enough in reserve as cash at hand let's say yeah and the market for the who they were taking deposits off are these um startup companies and because there's been like a almost like a tech Crunch and these These depositors are actually having to withdraw their VC money which is what the bank wasn't expecting apparently which is Canada it's like it's risk risk appetite risk sort of um analysis I guess of what they what they've done theirs is again we don't know the full detail of all this still but more I've read about yeah Silicon Valley Bank and that's heavily VC sort of money in there and startup money but they offer things that I don't know if you've read this piece that they offer things that all the banks traditionally wouldn't so they offer um they don't know the details of it but uh if you are a VC backed company and you put your money into Silicon Valley Bank they will then offer you as shareholders for example of this company because it has your company has a value of a 100 million dollars let's say because you've had this VC back in even though your company might be worthless in reality and revenue um they've got 100 million you put sorry say you've got 50 million they've took in funding and your company is worth 100 million you put 50 million in Silicon Valley bank and then they will give you mortgages and things like that as a shareholder based off your equity in that company so it's almost like Equity backed loans mortgages and things are I think and they were in full valuation they offered yeah employee evaluation on a company that is VC I guess pushed and leather but they were one of very few comp banks in the U.S offering something like this so for Silicon Valley people and uh people that are VC bats and the money's rolling in at the minute as the money's dried up that then becomes more of an issue yeah I can't decide what they're saying that it's like a Silicon Valley thing and there's a contagion between and that's spread to other Banks yeah or it's just generally that bond market which all banks rely on well we've at a very low interest rate so all of the banks are down they've all lost a lot of money not just the small Banks just the bigger banks have a bigger balance sheet to be able to yeah that's right yeah because if they were held it whereas the paper loss for all the bank for the top four Banks was like 210 billion is it for the top four Banks paper loss of similar to what you're saying there where they bought long-term bonds but now the rates have gone up and they can't sell but they don't have to sell at the minute because they have the liquidity to pay out people as long as they don't get a big enough Bank room cripples um but they won't because at the minute every ones moving from the smaller Banks to the bigger Banks because they trust the bigger Banks more than smaller Banks so and that where they're not on effect for crypto comes in doesn't it because those bigger Banks won't touch scripts won't touch anything Bitcoin or crypto no and whereas the smaller Banks who did have a higher risk appetite because they had to yeah the market were banking a lot of cryptocurrencies yeah so crypto businesses have been Collateral Damage I think is a good way to maybe look at it but it's not just crypto it's not probably any high risk it's all the tech yeah all the tech industry in in Silicon valleys it kind of effects what it's been something about traditional biologists we don't need your deposits yeah we don't want to touch it because you you just create a burden for us for what is immaterial game for us that leads nicely to like the aftermath of all this of like them deciding to close these Banks down rather than bail them out and you think that's purposeful I don't I think that's just a mechanism I think that's just easier it's a meet in the middle in some way of yes historically they've bailed the banks out and kept the bank running um yeah this one they've bailed the people out that had the money in there or the businesses that had the money in there but let the bank go under so it's kind of like they've not they're trying to claim it's like you're not bailing the banks out they're building people out um but then which is what it is right because yeah but they've let them Banks fail all like three at the minute I think that'll fail all the ones at Banks crypto whether that's coincidental yeah or whether that's true coincidence for them yeah I think it's coincidental it could have been more of an attack on whether it's an attack or not I guess you shouldn't say it's an attack but if it is an attack would be more an attack on Silicon Valley and the tech industry rather than or even just small Banks yeah well we've seen that there's a good start actually flying around it was like 12 000 Banks back in the was that the 60s or something like that and then I think it was less in the 2000s it was like is it three or four thousand Banks or whatever it is yeah um there's a centralization in the banking market right there's less less yeah that's been happening over decades constantly throughout the weekend actually with all the US ones how they've ended up with the big four like all of going into each other yeah yeah and that's what's happening we've just seen Market opportunity for some of this like a new smaller bank right I think I mean you could still start a bank you could just take your risk profile has to be slightly different your risk profiles but so that the money's not as good you'd need a lot more investment a lot more money to run it to maintain it to turn yourself into a profitable business I guess isn't it so each time this happens it's creating bigger barriers to entry in my head yeah recycle through financial crisis right this could be the start of the next one we cycle through it but as it really is it one long cycle like we said that we've gone from 12 Cycles well more like a line at the minute it's one long cycle that we don't know where it ends and then does it start again because we've gone from 12 000 to say four thousand whatever it is over how many decades is that still one cycle that we're dwindling down to lower and lower more more centralized yeah yeah so actually is it is it a cycle or is the cycle actually never yeah I'm thinking whether there'd be more Banks or less like if it just they start growing up again in terms of Challenger Banks come through and then but that's what kind of stuff that shows that it's not because it's 12 000 has become four thousand over decades so another two or three decades was that four thousand become one thousand and actually that cycle you still have to look at the data for Bank numbers because you're right there could be a bigger long-term pattern and a smaller encyclical crash pattern um but yeah what did you think about the directors and see if like taking uh bonuses and pieces out like sketch it a day or a few hours before two weeks before two hours we sold the shares the two weeks is still you know something we see this you'd see you might see the liquidity problem but I don't know if you'd expect a bank run and then it was literally but you're doing it just not an announcement now 38 hours later they were taken over they also sold only like like 20 was it like maybe 15 to 30 percent of the shares they owned in the cooker it was well that's millions of dollars for them so they've all got millions of dollars but it's a small percentage so maybe it does it looks like a small enough percentage to not like scaremonger anyone um but you selling millions of dollars with the shares two weeks before it goes under there's got to be questions and then they were talking about this some one of them being involved with Lehman Brothers as well he was an actually member let's see that was there was a risk officer Chief risk officer which was that was it I don't know if it was a woman or a guy it was because it was to do with the LGBT community thing right um which I wasn't quite sure what that was it's hard to tell them about socials what's become a like a troll versus what's real at the minute I'm not sure anything that's possible so yeah try and decipher that what did you sorry guys say what do you guys think about them coming out and saying they're gonna obviously make everyone whole and not at the taxpayers expense yeah I was gonna ask you about this because exactly yeah I read the FED announcement it looks like they're going to make the banks pay for it well in terms of alone now they're also offering out one-year loans to any Bank um it looks like the whole um make everyone whole but not the taxpayers expenses are going to make the banks pay more of a premium into the was it the FDIC okay so like tax a bank on property yeah and then that goes into a pool that pays out well it's the FDIC the insurance yeah they're all pay in anyway it looks like it's gonna make them pay more to just increase that to cover this which is are they going to raise a 250 that I don't know yeah so two 250 Grand is the personal thing everyone's insured for that aren't they above that so yeah if you if you read the FED announcement it says anything above that will be it doesn't say at the expense of the banks they have it let's call it a special assessment right which is what they already pay in so it looks like I'm trying to avoid the term like bailouts because everyone's like yeah still giving these guys money but they're bailing out the banks the big Banks as well they are theoretically bailing them out by offering them so they are still bailing them out in some respects it all runs down to that adage that like if you know if you run a company or anything and know there'll always be a bailout they will always run it as if you will always get a bailout as risky as you can because that's where your margin is so it's but they have closed these Banks though so they haven't bailed the banks out no yeah I can keep more than the 250 I'll always get bailed out so this is yeah yeah so this is not that this is what it looks like it's not a bailout yeah it actually technically but they are still offering the bailout so why didn't it so my question saw the minute which is outstanding which I can't get an answer for two uh just him just myself yeah I'm just working around yeah I've been asking myself all weekend but why have they oh once we found out they were going to bail out the individuals why are they bailing out they're making everybody whole which is great in some respects um some people also arguing otherwise but you're making everybody whole but you are letting silvergate Silicon Valley Bank and Signature Bank all go under and there's there's a couple more potentially to come still you're letting them go under and not bailing them out why um why is it because they were running in a business that was not sustainable and the model but they're running a bank at the end of the day it's A bank's business model it's fractional Reserve Bank account the risk appetite is potentially questionable but but there has to be is that a really good enough reason for the way they run that so yeah they were too risky they didn't have enough but Silicon Valley Bank did but I don't know about silvergate and signature I've still not seen the detail of them yet but were they ruining it similar than they would be were they doing it similar to Silicon Valley Bank I don't know I'm assuming it's all the same problem in terms of how they were higher it's just basically too much of the deposits money was but it's still gambled on but it's not but sometimes it might not so I don't know yet for silvergate and signature but actually is it because say signature for example Bank a lot of the crypto industry and after the FTX thing that created a bank run effectively because of FTX and people were drawing the money or buying Bitcoin we're drawing Bitcoin or whatever they were doing there needs to be if is it because the industry a big portion of their business was an industry that has created a liquidity crisis in some respects but why did they like Lehman Brothers Go that was a bigger bank and they said no we're not bailing I don't know someone like going somewhere yeah so I don't know who's make it like it's a presidential quality yeah phone Biden up and say why yeah you can buy it in your questions I'll drop a message I don't think you know that's an impossible question why why let some because the UK did it as well but it's a big question why was it was it bad I don't know is it not Northern rock or something but I think that ended up being bought in the end but they were one of them they were just like no we're letting that one go I think it was Northern Rock one didn't it because they're not bought by Lloyds in the end no that was uh Bankers roebunk Scotland was it something yeah but they but the UK made the same choice right and that wouldn't have been crypto or anything related to that no possible they could have just looked at that book and gone we can't save that a lot of people are speculating and trying to tie crypto into this and it's like an attack control Point 2.0 and all this sort of thing but I don't know I don't think it is but I think it's subsequently will make it harder for crypto it's a bonus for the government for the ones that don't want crypto that this happened I would say yeah but I think there's too much on on but like think about the tech industry it's very bad for the tech industry we haven't got reliable banking in America yeah but a lot of them tech companies will be able to go and get a bank in the mainstream at JP Morgan or why didn't they originally because they were VC battles obviously saying put all your money into Silicon Valley Bank to then get the benefits as a founder of a company that has equity in this 100 million dollar company so they would doing they were run specifically their business model was almost catered and surrounded for these Silicon Valley investor style ones so that's but I don't know with silvergate and signature I don't know how true that is with them if they weren't if they weren't bailed out which is what was happening um all a lot of VC money would have just gone into a bond loss like really which is all been oh gone uh Alan Farrington put in a GoFundMe did you see that for a billion is it that 16 times no I think it's like 193 times he said it no 16 it was 50 it was about 15 million 15. billion they lost well there's hundreds of times like the billions of them most you'd go for a GoFundMe yeah when I looked we had like sixty dollars I assumed ten dollars yeah it was like is this a time to joke or not it's like no it's still not really is it no take it too light-heartedly um but it has a knock-on effects globally so for crypto how it ties into that obviously is yeah us guys at the minute are going to be struggle with getting new bank accounts help they're not going to lose any money because they're getting 100 of it back but as we know coinbase or Circle obviously is a big issue with the usdc coinbase I've got 250 million Lots up in Signature Bank do you think right yeah like giving loans and making people whole again is another inflationary problem right because it is if it effectively it all comes down to a money print right a bailout so you have to make them whole again so you're just going to give them money you've made a bond loss but we forget about that right write that off for the bank and bloody bloody but that is another inflationary push right yeah so there's like a little vicious circle going around in terms of Winter the bond market keeps getting punished when people buying them because um inflation keeps going up because we're having to keep bailing people out and money burning so that the same thing will happen to the bonds again interest I think people are expecting to interest rates to be zero percent I think for this next because it's today I think as well they're announcing the interest rate markers interests yeah you mean they will go up by normally they'd normally they go up but they're saying that it's not going to go up at all for this one um so it's now will it come back down yeah but how are they gonna inflation is still an issue yeah inflationary issue yeah and an interest rate issue on a bond market yeah so how do you get rid of that Bitcoin I don't know I mean no one knows the issue yeah it knows what to do no I was just guessing they're pretending yeah no one really knows it's what yeah there's no right answer yeah I don't think it's which is the best of the worst um as you your choice yeah um it's all very depressing just yeah we'll think about yeah but will it push people more to bitcoin do you think do you think actually I think it'll push white people up to a fractional Reserve banking again a little bit like 2008 did a little bit and then this one with a little bit yeah it doesn't wake everyone like another risk wasn't it like you wouldn't think bond to a risk but like that they were in a housing market bubble yeah it's a totally different risk but I know so like but it's still fractional Reserve yeah liquidate these assets and stuff but that was a problem will people then go I don't want to be I want to be more involved with banks or People Like Us that are fully back one-on-one yeah so if we go around saying look you can actually just users and we're not investing your money or doing yeah well we get it whenever you want it yeah they call it investing but it is gambling it's gambling on something that was deemed low risk but is now a higher risk of interest rate so I don't know if we just go around just emailing all these people say just just users just use our who did who did that River do that and I wasn't ready uh I don't know to be honest nah I don't want to do that it's a bit ambulance Chasey though so I'd rather not it's it's like the dust settle at least yeah it's help where we can and if you're going just helping people out they need something you know they're going to be running around trying to get a new account somewhere so if we can help in certain scenarios then great um but yeah I wouldn't go ambulance Jason I hate that and we try not to do that it does become a bit ambulance Chase in these times of stress or chaotic period yeah I just love it don't they but we've seen this knock-on went back to that um globally UK Silicon Valley Bank have a UK arm which has now just been this morning acquired by HSBC well I'm good if I knew it was a pound I would definitely bid some more I would have been some more you're not a big fan of um no uh it's annoying it's the bigger the big get bigger oh yeah but you're like no one else could take on that liability obviously the UK won't need to do a bailout now this is just HSBC you've got nothing reserve the HSBC have come and be the superhero for the government to pay all these companies out good old back book for it haven't they yeah um so yeah they've done I mean it is a Hong Kong is it still a Hong Kong bank primarily hsb6 it was it was originally it was your vendor um but the no I'm just thinking from the US perspective they've just let Silicon Valley Bank which is a U.S bank now go into the hands of uh Hong Kong based uh yeah I wonder how ring fence are that's only the UK um I don't know yeah but you know so it's HSBC is it how is it Hong Kong or is it UK or is it wherever these days don't know um but yeah it's frustrating it's good for the um companies that were using Silicon Valley Bank if they can just migrate over to be a HSBC customer however there were a couple of crypto based ones in that list which HSBC actually going to give them an account I don't know and I doubt it if I'm honest especially after what they did to you and I think they just have to agree to the terms that are already set like just we'll navigate the full term no because they'll know to their risk appetite they'll probably keep some get rid of some won't they'll be what they'll do they'll keep the good ones get rid of them so I think there'll be a lot in the crypto and higher risk Industries scrambling around for bank accounts right now in there yeah there's a couple of Challenger banks in there and there's a couple of crypto ones in there there's quite a few um so they are going to end up but I'm just struggling I think to get an account on HSBC HSBC has been one of the ones that over the time have been most opposed to crypto whereas if it was Barclays maybe you could imagine I'm giving it maybe okay um but not HSBC which creates a knock-on effect to these guys I have to go and get alternative banking facilities um and this is just the start of it I guess at the moment uh Circle we saw that's one of the points usdc uh Circle and coinbase is stablecoin which became not very stable yeah it was 3.3 billion in it so they had a lot in Silicon Valley Bank as well then the hardware three billion in there yeah and that stable coin dropped ten percent so it drops even yeah I think below 90 I think at one point briefly and then yeah hovered around 90 cents is it back now I think yeah since it was back up about 97 I think this morning when I saw I mean anyone with a bit of balls would have just gone in and said yeah if you can long that yeah it would make sense to do that not to have done that now a bit late now hindsight it's a wonderful thing it's not great look from them guys anyway because like we were talking about two weeks ago whether an exchange should have its own coin and because they were pushing it people to move off usdt yeah onto usdc and then this weekend this froze usdc as well they're frozen so you couldn't up ten percent so if you've had usdc because coinbase had told you to buy it to swap your tether for it then now you on this weekend you now couldn't get out of it because they're frozen you can't trust like exchanges have their own coin no because they push everything towards that and prioritize that and then this has happened and it shows exactly I don't know yeah I mean yeah I mean they probably did it with every good intention you know they want more people using that is that a good intention for every month they're just trying to grow the margins aren't they they care about their business when they've foreseen this happening they must have been able to see this happening they have foreseen this happening because they had the money split into multiple times could they should they have said this is not Financial advice in terms of the financial advice they gave them they're not really highly qualified to give to change they're not they're not financially able to do that but they can to give advice but they're saying that if you they were basically saying you can now swap it over from was it usdc sorry tether to usdc and then they were saying yeah probably yeah yeah because that's just another one because I think in the email that they put out customers was to do with usdc they see usdc and USD is the same thing was it and they but that's why they're emerging them markets the USD I wonder if they've gone back and deleted those tweets PR guys must just be like oh here we go again yeah this Monday's going to be a roughly for everything um you wouldn't need it I'm interested to see the reach office it definitely has but the to the the outside world or the outside industry of how much does the man on the street see in this news and what other interesting I was looking for it in the papers and it was all about Gary lineker I was just trying to find it nothing but you have broad cheats and then you have what's the other one that's not abroad she in terms of paper descriptions all right Financial Times and times and you have like I don't know and the Sun and the daily yeah school yeah yeah the red tops like a daily mirrorless I think it might be to the top like the broad sheets and the tabloids right I think come on over tablet but I always considered tabloid to be more of like a trashy paper yeah no exactly that is the kind of the difference yeah because it's a tablet so it's like a single the Tabloid it's got to be the shape of it or as a broad sheet yeah yeah you're right yeah um that makes sense should we get me a point my point is it wasn't very visible in the UK papers that a huge Bank in America is going down I think it happened the second biggest collapses yeah whereas obviously a front page of the Ft all over that but you'd have to like nowhere near some of the Daily Mail which is the biggest paper in the UK there was stories in online so the Daily Mail For example there was storage on it was dominated by Gary linick and not being on Match the other day yeah which although was weird I tuned in too much no punditry or commentary or any guest speakers it lasted about 20 minutes did you see but I was like this is weird but they're being accused of now breaking their own rule of they had they will have to have some kind of commentary for accessibility rights that they are internal BBC Rule and they broke themselves or was this just a UK thing I want to know this quote there's a Caesar quote about give them sport or Paul something and they'll be a slave for life or something they'll ignore what's important like an attempt so well I don't even know give them bread and circuses yeah um what's the rest of it yeah give them bread and circuses I don't know if it pops up because I was watching things and they will never Revolt there you go so I was watching uh The Big Short of the weekend I thought yeah about 30 times to watch uh watch that and it was like yeah loads of little quotes like that pop up throughout the whole thing we should do a thing by the way I'm part of that there where um because you've just said that like is it was it a UK thing is it the us us are paying attention but I don't think it is because part of that film as well when it's there's a bit where they're walking down the street and uh Steve Carell uh is walking down the street and he's saying to all the people he's like talking to the camera almost he's on the phone right yeah yeah yeah but he's like saying everyone's walking around me like all like ignoring this stuff natural meltdown and they have no idea and they're just more focused on the ball game and the score of this and this yeah it's like yeah it's exactly right that's the same time same in Roman times right yeah exactly the same in Roman times so everyone's paying attention attention to themselves that little bubble that what's going on there until it affects them they don't really care and pay that attention I see what that YouTube comment was on about there [Laughter] I've got that hateful comment it's an interesting debate last night God I'm off for one week and we get absolute abuse it's like described as transients in a bus stop that's fair so we've had that before well it's just a conversation the worst part is the guy said he watched one hour and 27 minutes of it so if you watch that much you can't have been that bad it can't be that bad we can thank him for uh he's lying and just you know do you must get it on tweets do you get any hate on tweets [Laughter] [Laughter] should have been more clear but it's the nature of online social media these days isn't that you just kind of ignore it yeah yeah I just want to say thanks thanks for the comments I mean yeah all comments are good for the algorithm yeah but I think YouTube hit that one I did that probably it's probably from he's probably been spamming out to other people it's probably not a legit comment he probably really enjoyed the episode I'd say yeah it's gonna hate take it on board take it on right but part way through that conversation I was probably I was like oh yeah this guy's got a point I'm asking Mikey halfway through whilst you guys are talking together yeah it's probably my fault yeah it does look like one as well what I'm trying to start off with the agenda at the beginning he starts talking about corner and like section anyway apologies I'll try and stop interrupting people I've got nothing spoiler anything else on the banks no but but like watch this space because it's ever changing contagion being average all day well the announcement is happening right now I think anyway it's 1 45 so it starts from 50 51 minutes yeah okay right so are you keeping an eye on these indicators of but that's would be my what I would um but really we're largely on where are we unaffected there's the exchange as an exchange yeah directly like there's literally I can't think of anything that causes directly we're not affected um liquidity purposes I guess the whole industry has to pay attention so when saying that I'm talking about not like Bitcoin being available to withdrawal things but uh dollar being able to get into exchanges because dollar is the predominant currency for trading I mean that might cause um basically there might be a squeeze on buys right yeah if everyone buys the price it's because everyone's buying get Bitcoin get it off the exchange then that's what's forcing the price to potentially go up which yeah that's what I've seen these premiums on yeah the previous exchanges yeah so there isn't and there is a knock-on effect and an impact but it's not a material impact I would say to us but we don't even really deal with dollars so it's not really an impact at all in some respects however are yeah but broadly in the market right our partners we deal with and um people that we have relationships with and other businesses we have relationships with they are affected um in some ways whether that's just losing their banking temporarily or there is disruption and we have to I guess we can try and communicate with them as best we can so yeah there's always we always have to pay attention for these things and be aware but um from our company perspective at the minute no direct impact no indirect yeah just from relationships with other partner companies yes yeah but not basically caveat is we've got better treasury management better liquidity than any other any Bank well as soon as it's 100 reserved technically yes yes 100 bats in comparison to there aren't many veterans no other bank they could take a bank run but as an exchange you're right if no Bank in the world can take a bankrupt 100 gets pulled out because they don't have that available isn't there a bank recent or someone applied for a license I can't remember who it was that was just that kraken's involvement with um they got turned down because yeah uh I can't remember custodia um oh yeah it's just excuse me Caitlyn Longs yeah whoever heard that name before Twitter quite active in the industry and trying to create a US bank and they want to do it with 100 uh reserved and there were a lot yeah they got rejected that then changes how I mean I'm not an economist but it changes how the economy works it changes fundamental things that are like you know yeah because your mortgage and your loans based off factual Reserve banking no it's even the value of the dollar the bonds uh demand for it right it changes everything fundamentally it is a a big change that people that's probably why if people start doing that which people are starting to move to don't get me wrong but nobody really knows how they'll play out so they're scared of how that'll play out I think yeah see what it's like chicken and egg isn't it so what's better for the economy is a fractional Reserve System but it's not good for the deposits but in the long run a better your economy is better for the deposits yeah or fully backed where you don't end up with loans and mortgages and things and you pay for what you um if that makes sense it's basically a fiat currency would always require a fractional Reserve my eyes um creating demand for that fear in bond yeah form yeah yeah there you go or you use your own balance sheet that's a different angle so you don't loan off deposits you loan off your own balance sheet leave it once who wants to know if it's not it's no longer fraction Reserve sorry your own assets your own so it's not a liability to third parties yourself that's it not right now they haven't but over the long run could that become I mean look at Apple Google Microsoft they've got ridiculous you know but they create they create that asset by selling a product but Banks don't Yeah by having deposits okay so what if they offered more questions they become the banks yeah yeah well if they have a mortgages using their own cash so there's no such thing as a bank run on it which they're getting into unless they go bankrupt as an individual as a company themselves and after a club that goes into liquidation don't get me wrong there is still we look at Apple we're getting into that not that kind of game but they've got their own card and credit cards and yeah offering lines of credit because they've got Apple at one point they're too much cash they didn't know how to do that they wouldn't where do they put this cash and how do they make money on it because they had too much and that's why they end up acquiring companies and investing in companies and like r d and stuff they spend because they have to almost um they've got so much so yeah what if they offered mortgages they had a hundred billion I mean I'm pretty sure is Apple I think Microsoft has got a massive chunk of cash as well I think they were like two or 300 billion in cash um or cash equivalents so if they've got that that's bigger than silvergate do you think they should start lending it out they could they could take over the way with banks and just replace them with tech companies that's you know is that what this has come from yeah is that another speculative trust me you get a well-designed bank card if it's an apple one wouldn't you because you work great ux yeah not like it at all you'd be first sign up for the Apple Bank yeah well they I think they are moving in that direction maybe just not publicly staying that's right this sort of thing fighting back against it and these sort of things fighting back against it in some respects so there is options and there is other routes and um other ways to do it and it's just never really been done in the past I guess and we don't know how that plays out people can speculate but who knows interesting right banking done you know nothing really about banking um the prayer Bitcoin experiment set a record with 71 peer-to-peer transactions in three minutes that's bloody impressive isn't it we were very good not getting near that with my phone no they didn't use bolt cards we tried to send them some originally we couldn't get them there then because of the postage when uh we tried some recently again and we couldn't get there yeah the Brazil guys right yeah I need to check well send them a POS um yeah but it's the same it's the same orange all right okay um we are trying to send them some cards still we were trying up with the postage has not been allowing us to send for a while oh yeah it's been a nightmare um but no the point is anyway forget that let's not tie ourselves into it um well The Unofficial world record for the number of line-in transactions in three minutes in three minutes and they're trying to now get Guinness World Records to do this and record it so they can get involved with that would they well no we've already tried it haven't we and they said now years ago it's not their style of thing is it yeah we've got an email from them saying explaining why they wouldn't touch your transactions like that so I think they'll struggle to get that it's cool though because I think if you tried to do this without the bolt card could you do so many one QR code scans in three minutes 33 seconds how he just interrupts like sorry okay this is this is the guy I was just thinking how did they do it like what what was the what was the mechanism bolt card to POS machine and then I assume I thought about the email here from Guinness World Records you want to hear what they said about it yeah so that's quite interesting before I interrupt so they said unfortunately so this was October 2021 said uh apologies we can't open up a record for Bitcoin transactions at this current time uh so one of the most significant reasons is that we can't open this record is that to the best of their knowledge there is no internationally recognized body that can share the relevant data about these types of transactions Guinness World Record would need this data from an internationally recognized body to use in the development creation standardization and monitoring of such a record without a gwr cannot substance whether or not this is an activity or could be recorded it says it says this for similar reason they can't monitor tiles such as most Bank transfers completed in one day by a single bank or most cash withdrawal transactions made by a public from a single bank I really like that let's show some you know it gives me some trust in the thoroughness they get a lot of abuse aren't they for a lot of stuff things that you Mikey said I'll give them some sticky yeah we want to sort of Guinness World Records for um being credited on the most video games in the world and exactly it's like all it's all just fabricated and they just paid the max amount of money to get all these records oh don't say that badly no credibility whatsoever well but I understand the point yeah yeah bitcoin's decentralized as well so there's never going to be a governing body that they could then trust actually but just every record have to have a governing body I always think there's like I didn't have a government body of like longest fingernails yeah there's some weird stuff there's some weird points well we have to have an international government body oh for fingernails yeah that's interesting I don't know maybe just totally [ __ ] I mean I bought it it makes sense though what you said yeah yeah it's a good answer so how did the guys do it so as far as there's no video I haven't seen a video yet which would be cool to see the picture from my understanding so similar what we saw in is the Brazil ones and when they did it with the school uh with the kids school kids and they were buying the fruit so it's the same as that so they're using the bolt cards to a POS yeah and then I think somebody else is then just doing the bolt card to PS bulk cardboard oh so it's not once again it's just no no there's no claiming it's a chain the same peer-to-peer transaction so it's a lightning transaction to align to another to a POS which is a one okay I think I don't again because we don't have a video we don't know the detail exactly um so you could easily do that tap go tap go we know how quick it is to tap and make the payments so it's not an issue um but yeah I think with the unfortunate the world record things just it's gonna be some we'll have to Encompass in our industry and just all claim but we need video footage do you think we could be here you know exactly well you I thought actually you know shall we go in and try and be here I thought let's have the kit [Applause] [Laughter] we could just say we've got 80. wow no no no no well they've just done 71 and not so sure you did but so we must not repeat their mistakes let's make it yeah yeah we already did that kids we're talking about it doesn't matter they've got the record no they haven't there's no videos all right I'm saying that okay I'm taking them out of the word same yeah they've got the unofficial record now now they want people to be it's interaction but didn't we do it with 80 at the other week oh yeah yeah not without you I was saying our biggest problems I don't know 71 people we could just do one person right yeah yeah it's just 71 traffic maybe you could do it in a more interesting way we've already got plans to do that haven't we oh you didn't want to share them well you know about that was having this conversation with you the other day oh okay yeah on the weekend after a long sleep in it and the sore neck yeah anyway I think it's cool cool what they're doing I think they did it during the conference they're doing down there where they gave like everyone a bulk card still would like to have a go beat them trying to steal the Limelight could we not oh we can't uh I was thinking how we could validate it but we saw off chain isn't it how would you how would you are you calling the kids Liars no but potentially should we move on uh coinbase already touched on uh Corey so this was interesting one Corey tweeted at the weekend um that he they had a chart from I don't know it was like the one I don't know where the data came from uh they're saying 0.2 penetration um owning 100 or more of Bitcoin so basically say like that's the amount of Bitcoins globally that's 15 million people so they're saying 50 million people own a hundred dollars or more in Bitcoin I'm not sure if I needed to clarify the data but amount of time um is that just from on-chain data utxos which is then not 15 million people it's just this is what we talked about the other week wasn't it wallets versus yeah people actually but what people why I want to bring that one up is because now we were saying you see them at the minute going around saying there's there's like 150 million people hold Bitcoin or something and we was calling [ __ ] on that basically saying that I don't believe that's true for a minute it's small but you know 10 of that is 50 million which might be more accurate um and I think we were uh ballparking weren't we what we thought the figures might be more like and 50 million is probably more accurate maybe Corey listens maybe I've never done that yeah maybe maybe he's not a comment yeah so you think you're more in line with what Corey's saying there in terms of penetration yeah we've seen before it's more realistic I think in terms of bitcoiners that are genuinely holding something substantial not just was he talking that in a good term that was a lot of work to do sort of how did he collaborate the Twitter said reminder we are still extremely early in the adoption cycle for Bitcoins the store of value you might want to get some just in case it catches on right and then there's a graph that showed this this bit okay yeah less than 50 million people globally own 100 or more in Bitcoin and then he says we believe that two billion people will earn 100 plus dollars in 10 years well that's okay that's good that's a lot more people though well what's your I mean that's Corey's take what's yours how many inches 130x potential next decade in 10 years where are you in 10 years how many is that two billion 2 billion can we get him to commit to a number I would I suppose it's not Financial is it so it's all right to predict I would say 10 years how many more Banks what did Corey say sorry let's go 1.99 billion yeah it's good to do that then you'll go walking yeah I would be between 500 to a billion 500 million to a billion that'd be a lot lower than 2 billion okay two billion is a lot of people um 10 years a long time but 10 years we were 2013 10 years ago yeah I agree it all depends what happens in those 10 years and in 10 years 10 years ago guys it was 2013. just just to help 2023. we know you're not very good if you stop interrupting it constantly interested um what was it saying there in 10 years we've only got to from in 2013 to now on 15 million people so we're saying another 10 years we've not only gained 15 million you're expecting to gain 1.9 billion plus but if we keep having situations like yes exponentialism and who knows what's going to happen in 10 years it's exponential but I don't know if it's exponential to that degree we've already had crisis throughout these last 10 years of like covered and all sorts of things where people have not and we saw from 2008 there was a financial crisis which was banking related and still people didn't care people don't care um generally so you end up with you will from this crisis I'm sure get more people turn into Bitcoins but as we were talking about before how many people in the in the UK and in the world are just not paying attention to this and just getting on with you and Gary lineker using Bitcoin that way then the news will pay attention media will pay attention see I was thinking about this at the weekend the you know everyone's talking about the next generation of bitcoiners I don't think that that generation of susceptible to at the moment you think I like gen Z's who want everything now like that instant I'm stereotyping a lot here but you know they're very used to that um instant graphication Society Bitcoin is the complete opposite to that so with a long-term mindset we're saying that yeah I was I this is a little side tangent but kind of really it but I was thinking about at the weekend I think that they're going to see more adoption from older Generations who have been through the [ __ ] like this because I don't know how many gen z's are going to be affected by like this whole banking svb thing so maybe from a I feel like they're they're like yeah but long term they will be the older people and eventually I think as you get older your mindset goes more long term does it but what am I saying though is then the younger ones right now are not going to buy Bitcoin not now yeah they want that instant returns or whatever but they don't have because a lot of us a lot of every the Bitcoin industry in general is all like oh it's for the Next Generation but the next generation are not we said uh it's quite interesting point we're like where's the highest growth from like older people like the older people who are directly affected by the [ __ ] that's happening you can look at our data on sign ups and just tell you where the growth is I think there's two different things there's one that's you're talking Bitcoin is like a long-term store of value investment whereas you've got Bitcoin as a use so using lightning payments and making payments using lightning with that worthy I'm just talking about general interest as well because they're two different things though aren't they so you're so you've got investment people are buying that from the interest from whether it's banking whether long term store value that's a long-term mindset and you're saying the older generation and more um uh attracted to that in some respects the younger generation are not from that but are the younger younger generation are more uh susceptible to technology and new technologies so if they're using lightning payments would they be using lightning payments and eventually they'll come on to the long-term mindset eventually they don't need to know it's like I send a bank transfer I didn't know it was faster payments Network in that sort of style working in this industry in in finance it's like yeah so could we so us bringing out new like the bolt card doing things like that that the younger generation jump onto are you going to get the younger generation adoption usage rather than uh store value investment yeah maybe it was just it was just a side though you know when I think like you know I try and get them yes just while I was trying to coordinate a six-year-old's birthday party nightmare horrible where did you go okay bowling bowling six year olds can't Bowl did you use the ramps yeah it's really frustrating watch six ball you can't pick up the ball it's really frustrating six-year-olds in general push it down the ramp things and it just takes age get down there and by the time it gets down there just goes off into the barrier so this is why I was thinking about yeah whilst watching a really slow bowling ball together it's painful okay it was actually so slow that they didn't get to the end because they had like an hour of course one of my kids had pushed one off like and it's got there and I think he's just stopped against the pin because he's not on a power yeah knock over a pin yeah yeah so no anyway that's why I was thinking about this stuff because I was thinking like no chance this Generations [Laughter] no but you know like I'm gonna gift Bitcoin for my younger niece or nephew or whatever but then reality is I don't think they're can appreciate it at the moment because they don't have that long-term mindset I'm sure all the Gen z's are going to be in the comments now on our next video don't watch YouTube videos any other stuff um right is it question time does one of the big things interested in this one this is the evening guys he's on there come on then hurry up we need an interruption counter oh definitely read like a buzzer and next week if yeah if you get a buzzer you can spot it then um Saudi aramco they've made these things aramco aramco oh I always pronounced it uh 106 I don't know if that's right that's how you spell okay I mean I pronounce things okay exactly exactly let's not against that 161 billion uh profit in 2022 the largest bionic a public company ever is it yeah so just you were talking the other we were exactly oil companies even though price of petrol price is a Skyrocket into end users retail people but they're making record profits yeah disgusting and this is another one who was it was it she wasn't Shelly was it was it yeah but they're getting the the golfers doing what they call them some attacks it never seems like it's enough yeah I mean oh well congrats to them this was just a buy comment I think yeah no it's interesting from the other week sir just following up seeing that happening more and more as oil still rules the world yeah even though Bitcoins making a dent it's not at the minute Middle Eastern company yeah so and what are the biggest now the most profitable listed company in the world an oil company uh they would be because that's the biggest profit ever for a public company so yeah um it's just a strange one like because not that long ago everyone was talking about um uh wasted assets still in the ground for oil companies because ESG I mean they wouldn't be about mine anymore Royal yeah it was not really in line with all the political stuff we're hearing about yes Jesus is just yeah it's hotter yeah everyone's got still there's still the Paris accordance that everyone's playing people need to be seen to be doing something whether they do something is a different thing or what they do is it impactful no Credit Systems that they're all selling them by Slide the electric vehicles and well we'll get it that's what we're done let's not go down that yeah but you'd want to see them like pivoting into some maybe they are I don't know enough about them but yeah it's not great is it mine in Bitcoin yeah but then that'll be dirty mine and I'm sure people will complain at that but it's being used anyway I'm clearly making lots of profit [Music] okay yeah interesting just to follow up we've got no coin call in the news still um I wasn't here last week was I was there's no concrete we had going on the news last week yeah what was it yeah I can't remember we have to listen to last week um question of the week do we not have any kind of news so nothing going on I mean there's loads going on yeah it's very exciting you're on a secret secret project yeah can you give us a hint while the secret secret project is that's classified I think it's something that a lot of people are calling for you're leaving Molly wow okay have you used it since then uh no I didn't manage to get any hurt um CBD oh yeah I might try it please yeah I have now got an ailment okay I've got the spray at home I will give you an update next week thank you yeah so far so good hurtsamp.com [Music] there's nothing else it's an empty box yeah display purposes only yes cool oh can I fill the question question of the week how long has this gone on for now too long because you watched it was a long question I oh this is a bit Doom do you remember him in theme with a podcast okay seasons I'll save guy from last week uh it's called if coin Corner fault is a business sad face what happens to uses Bitcoin that's on your exchange that is either waiting to be spent converted or moved to Cold Storage well this is very themed isn't it like with the collapse hypothetical okay from a from both personal and business perspective um is already all in Cold Storage but within the companies called storage if he's talking about um individuals called storage then it would just get sent out to them at some point entered from our call to their cold effectively um so it would just be the same as any other sort of I guess liquidation process um the Bitcoin is held one to one so you would just all get over by the time period you'll get Bitcoin sent back to you um if you provide an address it all gets sent out um and the Fiat same it's all uh kind of segregated ring fence um we have got like the similar situation like coin floor because there's essentially closed down didn't it um so you could do like essentially like a Novation is what is what happened there so it'd be a similar sort of process if we were like if we shut down just because we choose to shut down but then it would just be like you know you've got three it's like local Bitcoins did and they've 12 months if they give everybody I think to come withdraw all the Bitcoin and fear they've got help held within local Bitcoins once they've removed that then 12 months they'll shut down any that I've not removed I don't if they'll just keep that or they'll push that's charity or whatever they'll do so that's one route people can go to and that's like a voluntary shutdown because the industry is being squeezed and they don't want to participate any longer liquidation we've gone into uh insolvency which means we've um we've got debt and we're effectively bankrupt is easier term to use then at that point we would um there might be like what we're seeing with Silicon Valley yeah yeah there's a process that has to be picked up by Liquidator and they'd go through it and they'd send everybody the Bitcoins out um then maybe if you are bankrupting you 10 loss or something then everyone would lose a theoretical ten percent in in some respects there um so it depends on the scenario but if we just shut down tomorrow because we wanted to we'd just spend the next three months or whatever selling everybody the bit going back and it's a hell of a process because you have to manually go through send everybody but that's part of the process um is it sure of it just a Novation period right yeah it just depends you too so it's a very boring answer we would just send you backwards there's nothing much to it we have no plans to fold so nobody's War about that as Dave said withdraw your Bitcoins and performance call Storage themselves makes it easy for us this should be the message on every everybody's exchange and just yeah there was a civilization in not so long ago it wasn't that I mean you were in on Twitter about what what our exchange what are we doing actively doing yeah educate people on point it's called storage and part of that is we we historically we have done things haven't we yeah it wasn't that conversation it was OB as well and can't remember who division was it uh Swan I can't remember maybe um but yeah it's not again this was the thing we've had a while ago a similar thing is it for us to educate on that or is it people to go and figure that out himself um you know if you educate on it and then they go away and do the cold storage and then they mess something up and they lose them their Bitcoin because they were looking after themselves based off your education are you then liable and are they going to point things out so there's lots of things you have to think about when you're doing these things it's a pain um we encourage go and do cold storage but we're not going to help advise on how to do that and what to do um because you know it's not for it's not what we do as a company um so it's yeah for them to figure out themselves but we encourage that as you've just seen now with Silicon Valley Bank and all them ones where people may not be able to pay salaries today fortunately the for them the the government's kind of bailing them out in some respects here and allowing them all to withdraw the money uh 100 percent um but if they hadn't done that and then people would have been able to withdraw their money and they won't be able to pay staff if you help Bitcoin you can obviously be able to pay staff and do that if you help Bitcoin self-custody if you help Bitcoin an exchange and that exchange decided to freeze everything then you still you would still be in the same scenario as the banks there in that situation so holding it in self-custody would obviously be uh much more um beneficial for companies if they can hold it themselves yeah there's no one's been sellers on Mondays can you saw that was all over the Press about paying salaries I was like no one's a little bit salaries yeah people were talking about we get paid on the last working day so once if that falls I'm gonna do yeah but it's like what's the date today what's the 13th yeah it's mid-month it's a mid month Monday even if you do weekly payrolls it's the end of the end of the week oh for the last 15 years no one's ever get paid on Monday so I don't know it doesn't matter people are using that as an excuse like oh people won't get paid they won't get paid I know it's Monday I think so was it um one hour 17. yeah they're getting too long I need to stop be a bit snappier guys just cut his bits out yeah you probably could you could go down to about 10 minutes though right thanks guys thank you cheers peace [Music]