Apple: Hiding Bitcoin Whitepaper On Macs Since 2018 | Britcoiners by CoinCorner #84

Transcript

[Music] let's go hello hello right this week price uh as usual we've got Malaysia prime minister talking about the US dollar we've got Swiss bank announcing Bitcoin ethereum Services clients we've got Apple including the white paper in the OS we've got Brian Armstrong tweeting about lightning is great we'll get on to that uh Europe producing its dependency on the US and did you have one of these to add as well we're all good there we go no Dave so this will be a turbo so and I'm in Dave's spot I do actually feel a bit out of place if I'm honest yeah it's weird yeah um so kickoff price above 30k 30 145 that's Mikey's noted down before the Pod did I see that that's the height it's backup of the 30k it's not been here since June last year yes all right nice it's interesting last year um what was that yesterday it was like 28 just over 28 yesterday morning and then it just decided to have a random pump to 29 in the middle of the day and then about was it 11 o'clock last night started to move towards 30 and then went over 30 and early hours of this morning but why I have no idea I don't know it was a bank holiday wasn't it UK um what was that a bank holiday in the us as well I'd imagine six it was Easter wasn't it Good Friday oh yeah Easter Monday so is it theirs as well so that like four day weekend as well same as us um so I honestly don't know all those Bitcoin is orange peeling their families yeah again starts with the v-stricks yeah I wish that was the case price does do weird things weird times um but yeah interesting figure we're kind of back at um interested to see if that holds and maintains itself for a little bit also I love how like unimpressed we are by it you know years ago I think Bitcoin at 30k we would have been like oh my God this is amazing and I was just like yeah cool [Music] [Laughter] cool um yeah I don't really have anything else to say on the price so no no I could just kind of ignore it nowadays to be honest genuinely I do I don't even pay that much attention to it move on okay it's not there not the important part um Malaysia prime minister says there's no reason to continue to depend on the US dollar this isn't the one you know it is it no no it's my leisure another one of these countries that's kind of jumping on the I think he's just following on from last week yeah you read the next one down immediately China to invest 39 billion in Malaysia yeah that's nice that might be why but this is again still just watching it play out I guess only and seeing the the not the downfall though is the downfall of the US dollar but it's slow and steady but the attack on the US dollar almost and it's heavily coming from China isn't it didn't macron say something similar which was very out there for someone in Europe yeah that's did I skip over that before that was one of those yeah yeah you're up to reduce uh its dependency on the US yeah um which kind of ties in with this right it is but coming from Europe is interesting yeah well it's the French yeah that's true not sure very well I don't think people like him anyway yeah oh not particularly our lights anymore that whole country's protesting at the minute yeah you don't see the riots because they increase the pension age by two years no no full scale riots they raided uh black thingy didn't they as well I sound very angry in France I don't know I think they wanted to move it up to 68. but there's just so do you not just feel like the world is so angry at the moment yeah it genuinely really is it's like all bad news all the time and we've not got any good news to contribute exhausted this is the best way to put it um it's just non-stop isn't it not even bitcoin news just general yeah negativity of things is just incredible yeah but I think this is I was reading a a book actually the one you was saying about Zach the uh where currencies go to die is it no when money does money dies great book um which is quite interesting but I think what made me click a little bit with this when you when you're watching like in real time we're watching the US dollar kind of downfall in some respects in real time as we're watching bitcoin's growth as we're watching China try and push their way in and these things happen uh like slowly over a long period of time um when you're like reading one of them books like um when money dies and you're reading back and you you're looking at how that died that's all about the the money from Germany in the world wars and stuff um but they they are saying kind of going through the the chapters and going through the bits and they're explaining like this is what happened this week and you you kind of don't see the time scale in it you when you look back in history you just see this is these are the like say 10 points these are the 10 points that happened in this point in time to make um this currency die also this for this currency to lose it's it's clubbers of currency and status and so on but you don't realize and you don't really appreciate how long that actually takes and because we're seeing it in real time and we're watching this play out in 50 years time will people look back and have a book like the one we're reading yeah and it will be like two chapters long or something and that just highlights all this bit that we're living through which is years of our lives but it can then be condensed into like just two chapters that's a moment in history it's tiny yeah it's actually our lifetime it feels like such a tiny part of history that when you listen back to it yeah um but actually this is exactly what is happening now because you kind of look at it and keep saying when I'm saying that downfall or the the potential start of the downfall of it is because I I'm not looking at it from I guess hindsight and from a distance away to know that it is the downfall and we don't know that it could flip back the other way and the dollar could become more powerful anybody anything can happen um but kind of seeing that and thinking that's what we're living through now and then thinking you know in 50 years time we're gonna look back and that'll be two chapters in the book explaining that seems just crazy it's really really weird and it makes you feel like surreal like actually this isn't the downfall of the US dollar it will happen like overnight but it doesn't it happens over many many years yeah um and the same with the growth of Bitcoin that happens over many many years and takes that time to come into some sort of global status um yeah even with Bitcoin like say we are our lifetime is significant but then an insignificant part of its history eventually it will just go on forever hopefully yeah and that's why it'll just be a one chapter book yeah I literally think yeah I drive him this morning listen to it and I'm thinking like that's that's what played in my mind and I'm thinking about the last 10 years of of Bitcoin that I've been quite actively involved in I guess rather than 10 years and things have happened over that time people have already forgotten about things from like 10 9 8 7 years ago and these are now they're now focused on these things but all of them pieces of the puzzle kind of played their part um in allowing Bitcoin to become more even what it is today and then what hopefully will be coming 10 years 20 years and 30 years but it just seems now like such a small win significance all that stress all that anxiety all the little things we sell 500 Words really well let's even the block size Wars book yeah block size Wars book's great but it is done over like it's quite a short book yeah but that was like two years yeah in the making and two years was a long time when you're battling away and having conversations with people that it's just crazy talk um he condensed into a little book which will then eventually that whole book will probably be condensed into one chapter in a book in the future does that ever wear you out that we're never gonna see like the end not like the end of Bitcoin but well to be honest we might but you know like when the last coin is mine like we always we talk about it now in the sense like oh yeah casually the last coin open mind in 2140. we won't be allowed like around to see that it's not weird you out speak for yourself one of those things still um it's pretty wild yeah especially considering you see all the arguments about what will happen with the fee market then and it's actually well none of us are going to be alive but we've been arguing about this but it's Mal it's more about the mission than the you know the work extends your lifetime essentially yeah it's like you're you're yeah even like your kids may not be like your grandkids might might be alive for that and that's like you're leaving yeah hopefully the world's in a better place by having Bitcoin and still being a workable product in 2140. so you do have to deal with them things now but it does seem crazy that you're dealing with it now for 120 years away where it might be it'll be a completely different world by then as well it will miss God this is a very deep very very deeply I know try and keep it light and fluffy so jumping back two uh anything more than Malaysia I guess it's just that is what's happened in the minute yeah we'll see more countries come out China kind of partner in with more countries investing in more countries I wonder who'll be next week because at the moment it just seem to be a weekly thing like which country's next yeah it was a big push I think the Taiwan thing has been interesting to watch some respects but um yeah I don't know how that's going to play out I don't know if that's all of these China partnering with all these countries before they make a push on Taiwan is all part of that play as well it's not just about the US dollar strength it's about yeah I think they chose their time wisely didn't they China as well especially with the impending U.S election next year which will take up most of America's time and distract some energy yeah yeah so yeah interesting so keep an eye out um Swiss bank announces Bitcoin ethereum services to clients oh yeah I read this one did you read did anyone read it no no oh I've seen the headlines and read a few bits so it's post Finance which is their fifth largest financial firm in Switzerland and it's fully government owned which I thought was interesting I saw that yeah the 2.5 million customers is it yeah it actually lost customers from 2020 to 2019 which you don't tend to see in traditional Banks um okay and yeah they've just partnered with another bank essentially that can do digital assets for buying and selling ethereum and Bitcoin um they kind of quoted um opens up more revenue streams and customer retention just thought that the link there with them losing customers over the last few years that are actively looking for what what their customers interested in trying to keep them around um instead of being fully Swiss government-backed I thought was interesting yeah that's an interesting push-up did you say it was Bitcoin I need three yeah interesting as well like the some of these Banks or some of these companies that I don't say it's elastic effort for them in some ways but like you said that as they're on the downward Trend yeah they're trying to figure out how they change that downward Trend so that would Trend and they're trying things like adding Bitcoin obviously because clearly that I guess they're thinking that's a future thinking thing um so for them to think that it's a positive I guess people could spin that and think of it from a negative and think well it's these banks that are struggling and they'll do anything to stay alive yeah absolutely um which we saw I think revolute are a good example of that um from 20 they wouldn't be around without the crypto industry would they no I think 2017 I think it was they were on the verge of bankruptcy uh I think they were trying to they basically were trying to raise more money raise funding and they added uh Bitcoin and altcoins about at the right time when kind of the market went crazy and everybody plowed in and they got good traction um I think they gained quite a large number or quite a large portion of their revenue thing came from that um over the preceding years um so I think yeah it's worked it'd have to go back and look at the financials of their company as a whole but I I think that's been pretty uh pivotal for them um which considering they would be in a challenger bank or if they're trying to be a Challenger back um it's played out quite well so I think even they've realized as well they can't they can't continue to be a challenger Bank they're trying to become an actual bank aren't they we're trying to get their banking license in the UK yeah well I guess it's the question of uh it's a business model question yeah I think I don't know can they be a a successful profitable business based off just their business model which yes they probably could because they charge six quid to 50 Quid whatever it is yeah um which I guess in traditional banking you don't get charged but your money is held in fractional results yeah banking model whereas revolutes held 100 bats um in an account in your name at the back of England I think they've lost a lot of their initial kind of USP to me was kind of like oh they have an app my bank doesn't have an app they have an app it was travel as well yeah yeah the travel thing um the app and the travel was years ago and then obviously the crypto they added everything at the right times I guess but it's all traditional banks are catching up with that now really um yes you've got to do a better job than what the traditional ones are doing um but yeah I've always found I guess revolutes model to be interesting but for different ways than I guess the public will perceive it and the public would say okay I've got a bank account at Barclays for free why do I need to pay for one at revelry what's he going to achieve what why am I what's different yeah um and obviously your money is 100 secured Revenue as opposed to uh 85 Grand or whatever is maximum Barclays um which is one thing but obviously then that doesn't affect the majority of the the public because they will have 85 Grand or more in a bank account so you kind of go around in circles as to what's the benefit of these these particular charger Banks um sometimes it's just something new and exciting isn't it yeah but it's a father a little and then slowly the features they offer get merged into your traditional Banks like that now every Traditional Bank has an app mobile banking they offer you know travel FX rates pretty much on par with revolute and now they're looking at introducing crypto going back to the the new story which so Revel have already had that and now the banks are getting all that they kind of need to find the next new fatty thing you need to either yeah stay a step ahead of the banks yeah or you will become one kind you don't have to I mean I don't think you have to become like the banking license for revelry I don't know what their thought process is in the model there but they are just then it's not going to functionally change the front-facing products offering to the customers it's going to be the same offering you have a bank account number and sort code and a Visa debit card attached to that account the same way as you would once they've got the banking license but with the banking license they'll be able to go and um invest your money in things or maybe they'll be able to offer you interest based accounts and things like that so it depends on what that license looks like um but yeah long term they relying if they get it they're relying on themselves rather than a third party I assume yeah I think it's kind of like the advantage there yeah maybe in some ways yeah um they still would rely on a clearing Bank yeah um but yes I don't know which business model survives this is a big talking point in the US at the minute with custodial bank is it and um them being rejected because they didn't want to operate a fractional Reserve banking model um and that's kind of what we're seeing in some respects already happening in the UK but they are the non-fractional reserve banking models in the UK which are most of these Challenger banks are making you pay a fee for your account yeah whereas the traditional banks give it you give you that for free in the UK whereas I know in the US you actually do have to pay for your account or something so it's in that different business yeah the likes of custodia they're big or one of their big selling points was the chart they have crypto in so they charge for the custody of that so the crypto element is kind of the the way they it helps them survive as a business still like yeah yeah but then yeah your point is then actually when the banks come along eventually you know it could be 10 20 years whatever and they start offering similar things um but offer your accounts for free will they but they're still operating in fraction of the banking model so it's it's a behind the scenes thing I guess that's driving yeah certain things from a public perception it's almost the same product offering and one being charged one not potentially but actually is the benefits of charging gonna outweigh the what we've seen with Silicon Valley Bank and the likes the government's having to constantly bail people out um whether the public get that I think is a difficult question anyway we're gonna go out I've already gone down um and that's not even on the agenda to talk about uh Apple oh yeah uh Apple so do you guys want to talk before I talk yeah on it go on them um yeah so when I read Apple they included a copy of the Bitcoin white paper in every version of Mac OS since 2018. isn't that mad what's mad is how it happened what do you mean how it happened because Apple didn't do it no but they don't know they I don't think they know who did do it yeah they do oh my name I've heard I've done the release name I've read I haven't validated any sources on this what rumor is it was an employee obviously that put that in there yeah managed to get it through and has been assigned to remove it for like several years and still hasn't yeah so it's not Apple I've had I've added it it's one of the developers Basics I've heard that and then I've heard another one that is actually another piece of software they just use in their OS um yeah right yeah which could make a lot of sense I don't know which one it is but it's hilarious yeah it's pretty good um we verified it as well yeah you gotta verify it um did you we did that Matt did yeah yeah okay cool didn't even know that I messed up that's pretty I just think it's pretty cool so obviously a Bitcoin is somewhere in there yeah there's a Bitcoin in every company and they're all doing these sort of things aren't they but just yeah obviously Apple's a big one yeah but yeah if I do wonder how much they talk about crypto and Bitcoin internally Apple what you know high up they must it must be on their radar obviously especially considering they're moving towards Finance quite heavily and recently launching their Apple pay now later or whatever it is yeah which is terrible I think that is that just like clana yeah yeah yeah no fees zero percent interest no fees sorry this is a major side tangent but funny because I thought it was great you guys I don't know if you've seen it but someone financed a burrito recently that's a burrito yeah uh what's the there's like a big burrito chain in the US I can't remember what it's called but they're offering Finance on you so this guy said like it's not Taco Bell no no let me oh Mike he's gonna google it but um yeah the guy a little six-month payments literally it was like and I just thought like on the subject of Financing Credit and stuff I was like isn't that mad that this is what the world's come to where you can finance a career Chipotle Chipotle that was it yeah Chipotle I think it was like it was like seven dollars or something I can't remember and there were the installments were ridiculous it was like two pounds over three months the other stuff that's hilarious I was just like all the things but but the guy did it because you could yeah like just to try out I think that's what the Apple pay One's Gonna Be I've not read the detail of that but I think that it's pay now uh sorry buy now pay later so yeah yeah and then you get three months to pay it back three installments is yeah and but I don't know if you miss them installments and miss them do they then I'm assuming that's when they start charging you um or is it a tactic to get as many people as they can onto Apple products so they sell more Apple products and green people into Apple more but they have their actual Apple credit card as well in the US don't they they are moving towards becoming a bank in my opinion yeah if you've got a lot of cash out there you kind of think yeah they need to do something with it they're like what happened in this moment we sound really old like back in my day but like back in my day like I had to save up for stuff if I wanted it like I don't understand like the the buy now pay later stuff just I think we've lived on that though for the last 20 30 years now that's been the the lifestyle of the people especially us UK Europe and stuff that's that is a lifestyle of it um and it's very much become that um probably even more than 30 years when you think about it it's probably even before that yeah um but yeah that's allowed us to I guess have the things we've had along the years and um live the way we live have our burritos I can't say I've ever done that um yeah that's pretty cool I'm assuming after all the news I'd be interesting for Apple now get this bumped up to be removed or whether they just leave it yeah because obviously they would have been aware of the news and the pr that'll kind of maybe indicate a sense of are they Pro or con Bitcoin in a way yeah if they came out like straight away and said no this is the public company aren't they said I assume they'll have to put some sort of stance in it and some sort of comments and they've got they have to think public companies you've got to think about your shareholders in all different ways and actually yeah depend on their announcement could depend on their share price as well it's quite a difficult decision to to react to that I guess but if they say they didn't know it was there surely that's that's also bad that's also really bad yeah yeah but with the public perception of that be less impactful than if they removed it for example yeah um because then the removing it but then people could say oh they're not a Forward Thinking Company sell sell their shares and yeah would that then impact the price worse um so yeah it's a dad no idea wait and see what they say um but I think just going back to your question on that of surely it's on Apple's radar at the high UPS director board level and stuff to have conversations about Bitcoin and in in some ways yeah I think I'd be naive maybe to think they've not it's not been on their agenda at some point in time um but I do think there's there was a good uh was it like a quotes saying comment or wherever it was from in terms of the likes of Apple Microsoft and is that they don't until something is big enough as like say market cap size and um market cap Market size which we've got Market size not market cap but the market size is big enough for them to care about they don't care about it they will sit back and wait till it grows to a certain Market size that they think okay so now we're you know a 10 trillion dollar market size opportunity here we can go and get 10 of that which is a trillion dollars and that's what they look at and that's what these guys will be looking at and what they'll be doing they will however of course yeah Google and Microsoft and they've got like the Venture companies and things that will invest in the small startups and do them things but apple as a parent company is the actual that you know your iPhone your core offerings and core products they won't look to introduce things until they believe the market size is big enough for them to Warrant that money yeah it's not on the main agenda they'll they'll play around with the Emerging Markets by their Venture companies yeah yeah and test the waters yeah see what happens and eventually then it's same with the band that's a sensible approach a lot of big corporations that's yeah what they do um didn't uh Tim watch his face [Laughter] didn't he come out saying that he has Bitcoin I think he said he might have added the room as well but I'm sure he came out as a Holden Bitcoin he did yeah that was a couple of years ago I think wasn't it that was about two years ago I think oh I feel like my resurfaced recently as well maybe it was him that caught the white paper I think that research was because of this but it wasn't him saying it again it's from like two years ago I think when he said yeah so you know and it's on his radar at least but it's on his MacBook 2018 on order cool moving on yep um have we done enough for the pro the France thing yeah we touched that didn't we so the next one was Brian Brian Armstrong um he tried to do a nice thing uh so at the weekend um a couple of people Brian was tweeting about various things and I think I can't what chain ended up on the back of but um Joe Nakamoto on Twitter tweeted him saying that he's doing lots of Bitcoin lightning stuff in South Americas was that I think I think Brian was looking to give a hundred dollars to people doing crypto really at projects wasn't he and then it was that in latan was it or was it Africa it was Africa wasn't it because it was Brian's tweet about um their their push into Africa in their wall in Africa and stuff so was this before or after he tweeted saying they will integrate lightning it was part of that challenge somewhere yeah okay I think so it's part of that and he said uh Lightning's it was Lightning's great something will will look to integrate or yeah whatever it was like okay yeah I mean they've said that and then he was also like my tweets Auto delete after two months I also want to know how he does that because it's like Mission Impossible uh you can just get like a automated too yeah yeah serious man um so obviously he said he said that and then Joe tweeted I'm saying about the Africa thing and then um told him his lightning address of blah blah and then Brian responded to him saying he's just sent him a hundred dollars to Joe at coin corner.io which so for people listening let's clarify shall we what's happened there um coinbase have a send to send Bitcoins and crypto to email address don't they uh feature within their products so you can put someone's email address in that will send them an email say with 100 for example like Brian was doing 100 to this email address that doesn't actually send cryptocurrency to an email address that just sends an email to that email address and say I'm sending it to Mike it's gone to Mike he's got an email he opens up the email it says Danny's just sent you a hundred dollars um via coinbase blah blah blah you can click a link Mike clicks a link takes him to coinbase he registers sets up the account and it's auto credit with a hundred dollars I've sent him so Brian would have sent Joe for example that hundred dollars once Joe logged into his coinbase account or signed up for a coinbase account um so it's not any form of cryptocurrency transaction it's nothing it's just literally an email to it what Brian didn't realize obviously he's done that do you think nobody knows 99 sure yeah I I don't yeah 99 I'm sure that's disclaim one of these things um Joe has them received well not received that because it did obviously it's not an email address he put Joe at coincon.io which is actually a lightning address not an email address um which is with ourselves coin Corner um we don't operate a Mail Exchange on coin corner.io so obviously we wouldn't have received any emails um what Brian didn't understand is that what a lightning address is and he thinks he's able to send obviously Bitcoin to that which in theory would have been email address in all fairness to him he wouldn't have understood that however Joe said it was a lightning address it was all talk about lightning and Brian a couple of tweets before said Lightning's great it's something great and then clearly didn't even understand enough that what a lightning address was the whole thread was about lining and he's like let me send you this email yeah it's 100 there's some Bitcoin on your coinbase account um it was more of a marketing tool from really more than um actual showing of use case or showing of understanding um I mean it wasn't really surprising no not at all and I think on one side you know you don't want to slag Brian off I don't know because that but we are but you don't want to just like that there's too much in that respect because you know I appreciate he's going to be incredibly busy guy dealing with lots of things dealing with lots of Regulation still lots of investment is again public company dealing with shareholders there's a lot of stuff that he has to deal with on a daily basis yeah he's clearly not no I'm getting to put like he's clearly not I had the time or if he has he's not took it in in terms of what lightning is and how it works and obviously what lightning addresses are and probably not Ellen URL and everything around it he won't know the detail of that because he's he's probably as busy with everything else however then for him to say Lightning's great well what to integrate it is kind of like has he ever used lightning before don't comment and say it's great if you've never used it out in my opinion I would say yeah because you don't know you're just listening to what other people are saying until you go and try it so you should go and try it if he has then obviously I'm wrong and well I don't know how he's tried it because coinbase don't have lightning exactly he's using another service yeah I can't have an account with those because we don't accept the us we also don't wouldn't accept Brian um I'd accept him and then closes again I think you're right though but yeah two is credit I think I think a lot of the industry probably don't know what a line in address is as well um you don't think I do have that to be fair yeah probably just operate in this little bubble where we know what it is I think it's a little bit like that um do you think that's a problem then if the people who think that lightning addresses our email addresses is it that is that confusing do we need to do better yeah so is it Stephanie started tweeting about that and I did respond to them and answer a few bits but yeah there's a confusion that can people think it's an email address so you're sending transcend Bitcoin to an email address however they run on two different protocols ones on SMTP for emails ones on Lightning Network for Bitcoin payments so they wouldn't be able you wouldn't send Bitcoin you wouldn't send a lightning payment to an email address and you'd lose your Bitcoin or anything yeah just to clarify people they are two completely different networks it wouldn't be able to interact anyway you would you your lightning transaction would just fail because it doesn't it's trying to send somewhere it doesn't exist foreign so you can't get it wrong as long as the ux on the on the app that you're using to send the payment is intuitive enough to be able to tell you that's an incorrect address which most of them will I think um so it just say it fails and it couldn't send and you'd then just have to query well it's not right it's kind of like typo in your email address now to someone then you have to check it's it's legit failed send in an email then to something like he's done there that doesn't exist because they're not he's not sending an email technically he's going through coinbase's uh website or app or whatever and going through one of their features and click and send I'm guessing there ux is not or the UI is not intuitive enough to be able to tell them that that email address doesn't exist and it's bounced back as a it didn't send unfortunately um and if he did he's just not seen that and moved on I don't know if that does or not um so there's it's already handled in some ways so if you try and send it to an incorrect one it will tell you something will tell you most likely and we'll get the apps and the ux of that we'll get better as time goes on and tell it in terms of telling you this is a legit lightning address or this is a legit email address um so let's see sorry I did see some suggestions of like because it just uses the app like an email address does it's like a split basically so you can identify the left part and the right part uh some people suggesting using something else different symbol except the out sign um which I thought was interesting I didn't really see any suggestions I would I would do but I would stick to the same so you can eventually so that's why I was saying to stuff about it you can actually just um have that email address on a lightning address as exactly the same thing yeah and then you can receive your emails to it and you can receive Bitcoin payments so there's no reason you can't do that and so your Gmail email address at some point in the future will be able to then theoretically receive payments too so your Gmail could become like we're talking about Apple we come in a bank in the future um actually if G if Google were to Google could add Gmail add lightning addresses to gmail which would be just your Gmail email address and they could theoretically run it off the same thing and receive lightning payments into your email yeah we've discussed this in the past I've probably benefited if you've got that system then you can also build stuff like I can say you know if you want to email me the minimum it'll cost is 100 SATs and I can bounce any email that doesn't pay that back and I can rank my inbox books by SATs paid for priority and that kind of thing it helps you spam and things like that it's always been a known uh potential for filtering as an ill I think that was originally Adam back's yeah original thing with the proof of work stuff um so there's there's definitely an option I think an opportunity there going forward was to actually embed them together so they are email addresses like we're not a email company and having a Mail Exchange but we couldn't Siri yeah IO as an email for our customers so they can receive emails and receive payments and um but it will make sense for the proton males and the gmails and things like that to eventually maybe add lightning services in some respects even if they are just forwarding services so a lightning your proton mail address could actually from a front-facing perspective you can email and send a lightning payment to this one protonmail email address however then in the background that forwards the payment onto your actual lighting wallet rather than it being held in there so proton never hold your Bitcoins in there just like a folder yeah which is like a masked folder which is similar to the like sort of there is some email privacy folders out there like go and stuff offer you can essentially do the same for payments yeah so there's lots of slots to grow on lots of things that can still happen and you're gonna give Brian a lesson in lightning if he wants a conversation about it it would honestly be pointless talking to him I think if I'm completely honest you would be better talking to him that's not not offensive thing a fine I'll talk to him but it just works you'd have to if I've if you've got to go and educate Brian on Lightning you need to educate the whole team at coinbase is massive they've got 2 000 employees right I don't understand how they can not be paying attention to learning because this goes back to what I said about Apple before in the big corporations until the piece of that market is big enough in terms of the size that they want to go and take a share of it that's why like the altcoin trading and stuff like that the the volume on altcoins trading over the last couple of years has been incredible with all the tokens and everything else on top of it yeah so there you can see that as you know a if you said it's like a you know a 200 billion dollar a day volume they can go and take 10 of that that's 20 billion dollars a day in trading volume and then they could take fees on 20 billion dollars a day with lightning they add lightning and it's not a 200 billion dollar a day Market to go out in the minute so they can still very very early they can't make the fees and they can't make that use you could then argue that lightning actually could be used in payment systems of light versus Visa or Mastercard and at which point versus Visa Mastercard it is potentially a much bigger Market but there's a chicken and eggs and arrow almost where you you don't have the merchant side of it yet and you don't have the consumer side of it yet and you're trying to get both of them at the same time and it's an early market so again coinbase will look at that and say it's not worth our time and resource right now we need to focus on ones that makers money which has been traditionally their altcoin trading um and eventually they'll catch up and they'll introduce it because to be honest this will add in lightning for them will just cost them money yeah rather than um generate them Revenue because it'll add overheads of team for technical infrastructure technical debt um the transaction fees obviously will be pretty much minimal and nothing so if they're charging and making any money on transaction fees in any of their altcoins and things you know that could then start to reduce it people could start to see that lightning makes a lot of these altcoins redundant because a lot of them altcoins are added in there to make sure that they can um no sorry added in to these platforms because they're promising fast payments and things like that and instant transactions and so on whereas lightning then removes the the demand I guess for them other altcoins um or removes the perceived demand for them other old coins uh which then would reduce the trading volume of their malt coins which would then reduce coinbase's Revenue so actually when you're looking at from a revenue and business perspective the reason why binance and coinbase and likes won't add lightning is because I'm not still not out of lightning no apparently anyone else really I think this is why Kraken was reluctant to do for several years it really helps do that and Pierre and Dan held and in some respects both um push that I think Pierre mostly with it but even that took him two years was it of pure trying to push through by the sounds but uh which sounded like it was painful um but that was almost like peer pressure from the community at that point um and also crack and being more of a Bitcoin focused yeah forward-thinking company than say the coinbase and the likes of B so it was quite um it was one of them where like I don't think binance and coinbase their focus at the minute is making money Finance just altcoins Galore make money coinbase obviously of public companies so they've got to think about the public perception of everything the shareholders the revenues everything's public so they've really got to consider what their decisions they make on these things um same as Apple same as Google Microsoft the likes so I don't expect it to happen quickly or anytime soon oh Brian I remember when I first learned about lightning just now no I'm a little bit ahead of Brian um some coin Corner News there no try to do when Dave's not even here we finally I know I know I mean the main news is that he's left the podcast for good yeah is that even news is he's sick again yeah constantly um yeah okay coming quite unused so in March 53 of our Bitcoin cents from coin Corner were sent by a lightning we're doing these each month at the moment so it's good to see that obviously still ahead of on chain which is still ahead of country which is cool uh while at Satoshi they tweet at the weekend that they have just a highlight so then you know that any fees we would generate from on chain sends for example would then be lost because lightning is free with us forcing people's not forcing people we're pushing people so I say sorry yeah to to encouraging people to use lightning rather than on chain because we believe that is the better way to make Bitcoin transactions um cheaper quicker for everybody so that we are actually losing Revenue because we want to encourage the adoption of lightning and drive lightning forwards um that's a good job David and here is it so you would have something to say about that it doesn't doesn't like that does it you know that's the reality of what that is so we want people to move on to that it must be really hard to be an accountant at Bitcoin exchange and and a bitcoiner yeah constantly in two minds he isn't he yeah uh okay anything else uh yeah so Wallace Satoshi dates weird at the weekend that they had added point of sale functionality to the app and they demonstrated with a bulk card which was pretty cool so I think very cool yeah you just need to update the latest to latest version of the wallet so does she was in beta I think it was in beta movie I think you did say that yeah but people very excited about it and it also looks very cool so we love that um quick quick time for a quick question always hard stop haven't we if we do three minutes right corner plans for 2023. in three minutes I think that was a ridiculous questions in three minutes give me an elevator pitch no I don't have uh that to hand to just crack on but let's come back to that one next week maybe wow yeah come take three minutes to read this week all right go on the best fish and chips on the Isle of Man and do they accept Bitcoin guess what fish and chips on the Isle of Man best friend chippy and no they do not accept Bitcoin oh do you know I'll work on it though I did have fish and chips on the beach on Friday night there it was glorious it was a beautiful evening that's an appeal one cotton Castle yeah I don't think we have a fish and chips on the other Monday so it's Bitcoin no there is a local one for sale remember I was trying to make us buy maybe we buy it and Bitcoin Bitcoin only fish and chips what yeah the tokens for sale is that yeah so if we're all we should call it in the order hey yeah I'm not a fish and chip fan so I don't yeah it just is what it is to be honest I'm not I'm not a fish and chip fan I always have chips cheese and gravy on the side but which is your favorite well favorite inconvenience is a different thing which is your favorite fish and chip shops one of the three that's in peel the cotton Castle it's pretty good right on the beach glorious is that the one okay that's the one on the beach across the little benches so watch the Sun go down beautiful what about you Michael um they're both good but I just found out apparently uh chips cheese and gravy media now accepts Bitcoin ccg media founded Jason Roberts says the new service allows the company to offer extra services to clients when setting up e-commerce websites oh no so it must not be Jeff I think no I think they didn't they used to be Jeff because decorated chip National chip cheese and gravy day here on the Isle of Man one of the girls like Jeff the monkey's petitioned made it a thing makes politics that's all we've got to worry about what's the national dish there's no chip season gravy day I think is like the second January in March in second second January March yeah something somewhere just Google it you'll find it cool okay so it looks like the cutting Castle wins in that I don't know unbelievable until next week you can you can ask Dave next week then we'll see what Dave's asking to be fair yeah that's not going to support our own chippy is he I think that's part of the problem like is that you're the same like repeal you end up with peel stuff and you don't really try it you're the ones because you don't really go there outside cool right thanks guys thank you guys peace [Music]